Generation Z & Alpha Are Screwed? - MGTOW

please enlighten me where the tech is headed. I have serious doubts but I am open to be convinced otherwise. Batteries will be a failure compared to gasoline. I am aware of the concept batteries based on sodium, and even they can stand up against gasoline. The reason I can tell is that the government has to force it for it to even be considered. If it were viable on its own merit, people would voluntarily buy electric cars on their own accord instead of gas. I do truly love electric cars, they have huge benefits with the full torque on startup and they are much simpler in some ways. The battery is the limiting factor.

@TelepathicRapist: Shall do to be blunt by nature gasoline does per kg contain many times the energy. However here is a pretty big problem with gasoline and diesel engines but for the sake of being generous I will only talk diesel. Fact of the matter is piston engines are pretty good all things considered. However fact of the matter is more energy leaves the engine in the form of heat than energy produced at the crank. In this regard diesel engines are better reaching thermodynamic efficiencies of some 37%. Gasoline engines can rarely reach such levels of efficiency and in so doing emissions are badly compromised. In theory you could make an engine that uses concepts such as reactivity controlled compression ignition. However fact of the matter is when building automotive engines cost, complexity and efficiency along with emissions have to be balanced. To say this is hard is an understatement and it just gets exponentially harder with exponentially lower returns on investment. To be kinda direct on this front the technology is kinda reaching the upper limits of what could be reasonably executed. As for battery cell chemistry the underlying thermodynamics is better. Combustion into motion is by nature generally quite lossy battery cells are generally vastly less so. Often reaching efficiencies in the 90’s or quite close to 100% even accounting for line losses which can be controlled. A power station producing electricity even considering losses bests any automotive engine. As for batteries 4680 is kinda the first of all batteries that are worth a shit(eg see Tesla’s battery day) They are far from perfect however they lack cobalt, scale and don’t cost a metric fuck ton. Not going to say they are perfect but they make fully powered electric cars viable. Additionally cell chemistry and manufacturing processes are subject to violent and fundamental change. So as issues arise with material shortages the raw level of profit on the table. I think would be enough to drive research beyond traditional cell chemistry. But as to governments there was never really any prospect that they would ever tolerate. A situation in which their enemies controlled in a defacto capacity their automotive transport fleet. Is effectively at the mercy of their enemies deciding to throttle or supply or manipulate the market. Electric road cars have become progressively more viable as years go by and things like 4680. Are kinda of the model T moment or more accurately the model 3 moment. Simply put fully powered electric road cars are likely to be within reach of the average person shortly. As such purely on national security grounds most governments have vested interest in accelerating this transition.

@Atton: Almost everything you said is correct, 37 percent efficiency is very generous and under very ideal circumstances. The grid and power plant are without a doubt a more efficient delivery method even if they run on fossil fuels as well. However, you didn't really address the gorilla in the room, which is what fundamental changes are happening that will revolutionize the battery technology to make the product viable for the mainstream consumer, and also be reliable in the long term? These electric vehicles keep getting recalled and are suffering from battery failures at only a decade old sometimes less. The vehicles are barely functional in certain weather conditions, and are limited in range. The other problem is that it is now appearing that there are not enough raw materials that can be acquired to satisfy the demands of the US automotive market outside of it being a boutique market. Tesla is barely a profitable company, if not for the carbon credits it sells. The electric cars coming from the big manufacturers also can't stand on their own merit unless being subsidized by other sales. There has to be a scientific breakthrough to change the paradigm in a fundamental way, following the path the government is forcing will lead to nowhere

@Atton: i also agree that the ICE engines they have out both diesel and gas are now extremely burdened by too many emission control devices. This has made the newer vehicles very unreliable and expensive to fix as well especially the direct injection turbocharged low displacement engines they have now. It is bad. I agree there is not much more potential for the internal combustion engines as far as making them any more efficient or reduce emissions further. the transmissions are now also extremely expensive, complex, and difficult to fix because they have 8 and 10 speeds. the tesla only has a 2 or 3 speed transmission depending on the model. There is not much left to do on cars with internal combustion, I agree in a sense its the end of the line here as far as technological improvements are concerned.

@TelepathicRapist: The best I ever got from a RCCI engine was about 62% in a diesel electric railcar. The pistons however where broken shortly there after. But as for the Gorilla in the room 4680 is honestly the revolution, current gen car batteries are optimised and designed with consumer electronics in mind. As such raw materials are considerable but as mentioned 4680 largely relies on nickle(used in stainless steel and other materials often) and silicon which can be derived from sand. Lithium is also used but a minority of the cell material which can also be recycled and in time replaced by other elements. Make no mistake about it current gen non automotive optimised batteries for road cars are a dud hence companies like Tesla(the tsmc and intel of electric cars) are moving away from them in a hurry. But on the front of raw materials more broadly this subject is going to get crazy complex in a hurry. With companies likely getting onto all manner of cell chemistry variations. Broadly speaking its unlikely that prices of EV’s will not fall considerably with genuine automotive oriented batteries. As for battery performance even in current gen regarding recalls and cold weather performance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL9zveDz8H0 As far as I can tell the Tesla models generally while for a short while gimped by cold weather. Generally are able to reach full power and proceed on relatively easily with warm up. Can’t say the same for other brands since getting all aspects of an ev just right requires a bit of know how. Many current gen electric cars are duds built simply for legal compliance reasons. But I would expect around 1,000,000 miles of life from an electric car battery designed with automotive use in mind. 4680 I think would lean towards a life span at least that long or perhaps even more. While providing a respectable upper limit of some 3000hp in theory.

@Atton: i have seen them "start" in the cold, and then at other times they won't. I have seen a situation where someone couldn't get in their car in the cold because those fancy retractable handles were stuck. The bigger problem is not whether it starts, its recognizing that the battery performance really deteriorates in cold and hot weather. I agree these 4680 batteries may be a small improvement but it is not going to be anything remarkable. I read a little about it and basically what I see is that it may make the battery packs a bit smaller and provide some more range. I think its all smoke and mirrors. Every time tesla promises something big, it falls flat. We will have to see when these batteries are implemented if they will hold up, I have my doubts. having to replace a 20,000 battery essentially makes the car a total loss. I think what the industry needs to look at are hot-swappable batteries, in that you make a standard battery design across the industry that is on a shelf, then you can go to a station to have an already charged battery swapped in for a small fee. This would be far more practical, but even for this to work, the battery tech is not there yet in my opinion. The 4680 is not the holy grail, it is not revolutionary, it is a small gain at best in my view

@TelepathicRapist: Thermally speaking by virtue of going tabless the 4680 cell. At a given horse power would discharge exponentially less heat. By virtue of the lack of internal cell based resistance. This allows you to turn battery thermal management on its head and pump stupid amounts of power both directions. The raw amount of energy you would need to pull from a 4680 battery even in hotter conditions are likely beyond what would be encountered even in racing. The raw level of power a tabless design unlocks before thermals become a problem is scary. I would be utterly shocked if they aren’t retro fitted into locomotives to provide additional surge power. As for cell endurance even at the current baseline they perform at least as well as a 90’s toyota Camry. At a bare minimum cells generally get 400 full cycles before they really degrade and that is el cheapo cells. The stuff that finds its way into automotive applications is another story entirely. But broadly with proper cell management while the cold will have an effect on the battery. The car would function as normal once at normal temperatures. All bets are off for cells poorly managed they are another story entirely.

@Atton: These are not going to be used in locomotive, tractor trailer, or freight in any serious way. Diesel power moves freight, mining, and construction equipment and this battery technology is not even close to being competitive in this area. this is pure fantasy at this point. I don't know why you keep thinking this will be some type of earth shattering advancement. this is a marginal improvement at best. This 4680 changes nothing, the only way right now you could get customers to shift to these electric vehicle right now with the current tech is by force, this is because even with expensive fuel, it still doesn't match what a gas/diesel vehicle can do, and I see no tech on the horizon yet that will change this truth either.

I think the rich and powerful have really lost the plot and they are in their own bubble, it is making them blind. I agree with you. I don't think they understand that for instance it take a massive logistical supply chain and numerous people working to provide the goods and services they adore so much. If they try to kill everyone, its literally going to result in a severe drop in living standards for them as well, and if they don't realize this, I would argue they are delusional as well. If they piss enough people off they won't be able to hide in bunkers either, if thousands of people are after you, it will be extremely difficult to hide.

@TelepathicRapist: They have everything, far to much in fact that rather than be satisfied with a system that works they get power crazed and destroy everything even THEY have built/ I'm hoping the big change this time round will be that we the pleb's as they call us that suffwer their doing, WILL not comply anymore. I'm not as best I can, I have a list of companies and outlets that treated us like shit in Covid and that was a start for me to stop shopping or using them. It wasn't just covid it's the attitude toward MEN and WHITE men inparticular liuke with the gillette ad thing that has really turned me off the modern world, I now by the way sport a nice beard! lol! change is one thing, Destruction is another and NOT acceptiable especially when their is NO reason for it?