The Red Pill Vs The Black Pill - MGTOW

I think the red pill encompasses that, too. As far as I know, the black pill means that societal issues don't have personal solutions, and while I could play the devil's advocate, I think MGTOW itself is a good enough reason not to swallow the black pill.

@csehszlovakze: MGTOW is part of the learning process that ultimately must end in the Black Pill. MGTOW looks back and comes forward to the present to explain why men are in this predicament and how to survive in it. Black Pill is present and forward looking. It shows where the current stalemate must end up after all hope of redemption is exhausted.

WELL SAID BROTHER!!!

That stream had such a profound effect on Ayam Sirias that it certainly contributed to him leaving MGTOW CHATS and most of the internet behind (he still has an instagram). I'm pretty sure he does his best so his son won't have to go through all the incel BS.

I agree with everything you said but I have to touch on one point, the "looksmaxing"!, I'm in favor of it to as long as you're doing it for YOU! not for validation from some whore! In the last 2 1/2 years I've lost 140 pounds, I did it for ME, MYSELF, AND I, because I got tired of being a fat fuck who couldn't fit into any of my clothes! I don't bring it up much because I should have NEVER let myself get that fat in the first place, so I'm not looking for accolades or people to tell me "good job", or "congratulations", and sure as HELL not for for validation from some broad!

You must be a Chad or grew up as one. The Black Pill arose in response to the masses of regular men who've been robbed of their cultural franchise. In other words, the socio-economic trellis that enabled men from all walks of life to have a go at gaining the objects of status and security. Women have been brainwashed by decades of Jew Filth to lust after non-productive qualities in men and to reject the men who would be good for them and society at large. Black Pill fills a very important need in helping men to understand, cope, and survive in this Jews' Paradise.

The Red Pill tells men that they have the option to associate with women. Only a small percentage of men can exercise that option. The Black Pill tells most men that they don't have a chance in this current dysfunctional culture. The evidence is strongly building in favor of the Black Pill for most men.

@bigintol03: Thats an excellent and extremely important point i didn’t write down. I agree wholeheartedly. However to me results matter more. Ideally it should be just as you described. But if men are looking for validation and still get fit, healthy and self improve I think thats still a win. But now whats left is cultivating their character. They need help from friends or mentors like us. Because learning the hard way is something no one chooses.

@bigintol03: It takes discipline and real commitment to do what you did. You deserve all the praise you get you definitely earned it. Happy for you brother keep moving forward.

@InfiniteMushroom: Women have always. ALWAYS had the same nature. the difference is in the liberty they have gained and their nature has almost autocratic status in society which inevitably leads to arrogance and entitlement. This filth is more the natural progression of puritanical ideals of traditionalism. But specifically to protestant majority nations. They were the ones that raised women who would come to challenge their husbands, and they won. the Schism religions (roman catholics and eastern orthodox like the greek and russian orthodox churches for example) have been the only real western institutions that have been able to deal with feminism to bring the results YOU want. Traditionalism and rigid living. Because of protestants majority nations gave their women liberty without discipline or accountability is why our nations old social order became a thing of the past. this empowered women everywhere to rebel and the wealthier and more stable a nation is the more feminist it will become now. This includes catholic majority and eastern orthodox majority countries like latin america, southern, and eastern europe as well as france which is catholic majority.

@InfiniteMushroom: Jews unfortunately have always been gynocentric, we are a small population but have been able to more or less achieve substantial influence in america. This gives women a voice. because jewish women are known to be domineering, and assertive in marriages. this wouldn’t have been possible without a protestant majority nation. This is still a result of women. Not jews. Jewish WOMEN have used the influence of their male counterparts to influence society, Protestant WOMEN, and NOW WOMEN OF ALL RELIGIONS AND RACES are using the resources and power of men VIA marriage, motherhood, and inheritance to dominate and subjugate men. This is the reality. Not your foolish jewish conspiracy. Unless you accept that jewish men are beta providers that give their women platforms you will continue to believe in your jewish lies. I am a jew. I am your ally in freeing men. We have different ideas of freedom but inevitably either science makes women useless which is my goal or men subjugate women through traditionalism which is what you want. Traditionalism will simply repeat this cycle.

@InfiniteMushroom: You need allies like me who are jewish. others that are European, African, asian, native american. We need male allies PERIOD. And we need to use women as instruments to achieve our goals. The problem with black pill is that they don’t produce solutions. they give up and blame others. They only work to become the “chad” and if they make it they happily swallow the blue pill to join the plantation slaving for women. Absolutely not. the blackpill is toxic and foolish.

@MAcohen: Interesting counter points. I'm sure you, personally, are rightly motivated and we can agree on the current toxic paradigm. BUT, I always look at the Big Picture and where things came from. Protestant White nations have excelled in creating both material benefits and cultural structures to build upon. The Catholic nations, less so but, they enjoyed a rhythmic certainty of life per the Liturgical Year in the Old Missal. The institutions of marriage, motherhood, men's and women's roles, and inheritance are sound institutions but, they also require a proactive defense against (((cultural interlopers))) who seek to undermine them. The institutions are not at fault but, we have failed to aggressively defend what we created. I put the blame squarely on modern Christianity (early 19th century going forward) for allowing Zionists to infiltrate and corrupt the doctrines. Particularly, in the 1960's, modern Christianity mutated into JEWdeo-Xtianity and that was far worse for reasons that would take too long to elaborate on. As for the Jewish Conspiracy, it's yes and no. A conspiracy implies a concerted and synchronized campaign among many actors to do something profitable but destructive to the victims. With Jews, it's not a conspiracy per se but, the malignancy just comes naturally. I'M GOING BY WHAT YOUR OWN RABBIS and infamous secular Jews like Harold Wallace Rosenthal, Jonathan Pollard, Abe Foxman, Tim Wise, Justin Trudeau, Noel Ignatiev, and countless others have said. Jews must prey upon their host and no amount of reasoning can change them. Thus Jews must be expelled or, at least, quelled and quarantined. The Jewish surface ego might protest and say there is no conspiracy but, the evidence reveals something so ancient and dark that there's no point in arguing. it's just too easy for me to go digging and find out the biographies and publications of Jews who've been found poisoning the institutional wells of Western civilization. Jews have a perverse genius but, haven't done too well in covering their own tracks. .. Last point. Freeing men? For what? Being MGTOW Monk is great (I am one) but, it's purely for personal SURVIVAL in these feminist times.. Only a traditional White American social and cultural structure can enable long term planning and long term investment. A land of libertines pretending to be free men won't last long. Men need their rightful place and that involves prodding female nature towards better things. Where that fails, external injunctions via religion, economic deprivation, or cultural shaming are necessary. Who protests the loudest against such correction? Jews. As the old saying goes: The Jew cries out in pain as he strikes you.

@InfiniteMushroom: Protestant majority nations deserve alot of credit no doubt about that. But unfortunately in their obsession with their career and ideals of family they became progressively negligent, passive and eventually weak cucks that allow their women. Mothers, wives, daughters and their friends to influence, and subjugate the male populations. Not to mention the growth of our economic system and global markets also made traditionalism harder and harder to maintain since people were also exposed to many many many different ways of living and products. The needs of the people changed. The 19th century was when america became an economic power. and it increased to all areas with periodic dips

@InfiniteMushroom: Protestant majority nations deserve alot of credit no doubt about that. But unfortunately in their obsession with their career and ideals of family they became progressively negligent, passive and eventually weak cucks that allow their women. Mothers, wives, daughters and their friends to influence, and subjugate the male populations. Not to mention the growth of our economic system and global markets also made traditionalism harder and harder to maintain since people were also exposed to many many many different ways of living and products. The needs of the people changed. The 19th century was when america became an economic power. and it increased to all areas with periodic dips

@MAcohen: Thanks for the kind words...and good talking points as usual!

@InfiniteMushroom: “ MGTOW Monk is great (I am one) but, it's purely for personal SURVIVAL in these feminist times.. Only a traditional White American social and cultural structure can enable long term planning and long term investment. A land of libertines pretending to be free men won't last long. Men need their rightful place and that involves prodding female nature towards better things. Where that fails, external injunctions via religion, economic deprivation, or cultural shaming are necessary. ” this statement shows you’re not a mgtow, its fine to label yourself idc. But this shows that your not here to go your own way. you chose not to pursue women thats your right. But ideologically your a black pill. Which is fundamentally incompatible with mgtow. Because all of their woes boils down to women not choosing them and acting the way they desire. The only thing wrong with this is the defeatist attitude black pills have. Instead of evolving, adapting, and ruthlessly acquiring the results they seek they give up and complain. Its hard to truly embody the mgtow monk. Because it means you genuinely don’t want anything to do with women and do not seek their validation and simple go off the grid in some extreme cases.

@InfiniteMushroom: In your ideal world you would happily go back to being a blue pilled simp. Only you have the law to protect you. The law now protects womens volatile irrational and erratic nature. American feminism has been broadcasted to the entire world and is chipping away at all societies. Good luck implementing your tradcon ideals. The time has come to evolve. I know that men like you are needed in these times. But as men create a new life without women. You’ll either join us or be left behind.

@InfiniteMushroom: The problem men are facing today is so severe that im willing to look past your constant and consistent blaming, gaslighting, and defaming of a group i belong to. All because jewish conspiracies and whatever else you call it is trivial by comparison. Trivial compared to the pair of ovaries billions of men have to wake up to. This is the big picture. Elite men use this to control us but they also blind their eyes to ovaries at their side. Who argue and influence their male slaves to vote in more restrictions. who take away our privacy in the name of “fighting terror” or now more recently specifically since Epstein to “protect the children”. any and all excuses will be used to control and dominate the male populations. Long gone are the days of mass traditionalism. In a world where women are unnecessary and replaceable you will have the freedom to marry and join communities with tradcon lifestyles. But they will be a minority.

@MAcohen: In the beginning, I thought I was a Red Piller as did some men did who beheld its first light. As the light of MGTOW slowly arose over the horizon, the Black Pill ideology hadn't arisen from slumber yet, even though millions of men have lived it, though unnamed. As Men's issues reached critical mass in the Manosphere, the hidden horrors of genetic predestination were illuminated as the Light arose high in the sky. The Black Pill ideology became visible and it resonated with many men who were only partly satisfied with the Red Pill. The MGTOW message was very useful but, it could only serve some men. Nothing wrong with either. They are just different factions sharing the common enemy of feminism. Red or Black Pill, Baby Boomers, like me, do have the hardest time adjusting to an unfolding madness resembling a vast and dirty flood following a hurricane. Yet it is demanded of us that we call it beautiful, diversity, freedom, breaking boundaries, doing your own thing, ... anything but the dirty tsunami of waste that swept away a good civilization in its path. If I remember correctly, you are a Millennial. You did not see the very livable America that I saw. Hence you are in a better position to adjust to a profoundly dysfunctional paradigm. You'll do O.K. in this Jews' Paradise. I'll have nothing to do with it.

@InfiniteMushroom: I can accept that answer. I understand the generational differences in people. I am Gen Z which is after millennials. Endings mean new beginnings and I see no reason to be stuck in the past. Things are always changing and no social structure will last forever even the one I propose and continue to advance. Eventually it will be the old order. This is life. Life is change. Constantly moving. Even in death.

@InfiniteMushroom: Being my Elder you should understand more than anyone including me how life changes. I’ve only read the philosophy. The principals. This is why I can talk to you without any issues. But you have lived through it. Experienced it. It is part of human nature to resist change as you advance in age. I am not exempt from it. But as long as your alive you can change. Reshape and remake yourself. We need men like you. passionate about your ideals. Its so important that you help us. By spreading the word to all the men you know. To learn mgtow. To learn female nature. To invest in technology. In science. So that this era will be looked back in history as a dark age.

@InfiniteMushroom: By innovation. Creating ways where we can populate the earth without giving our sovereignty away to females. We need artificial wombs. We need surrogacy programs. We need new financial institutions like crypto, or decentralized banks. We a sex system that is better than the female. We need sexual androids. Or perhaps even better. Bioengineering our species to not need sex. with the help of technology and human genius we can create a new reality. Like the car. The fridge. The phone. The internet, Planes, Medication, Oil, telecommunications. We have advanced so much. And we’re only beginning to see the possibilities. Join us. Help us. Even use us. To build a better future for men. Listen to sandman. and actually embody his goals. Listen to more mgtow content. red pill content. Continue to listen to black pill. To blue pill. You need to learn all the facets of this issue if you are truly to become wise. Revisit the jewish men you blame for societies woes. And look at the women behind them. The women that have influenced their culture. There is power in numbers. And we need each other. Until We can make women unnecessary to men. We are allies. once that is achieved. Then we can settle our differences.

Synthetic women with full mobility and AI, artificial wombs, surrogacy. Going forward, there is no other way. My struggle is with my own memory and how to undo the insanity that's been imposed upon us. IT WAS BETTER but, unless a bloody and violent armed insurrection is at hand, we are compelled to go forward into the hellish Olam Ha Bah that's been in the works for thousands of years. As for Jewish women, there is a great paradox with them. The ones I've seen were damn good looking (even the librarian and housewifey types) and I can see how a Jewish man could be charmed by them. But, once they get that ring on their finger, their Inner Lilith suddenly arises and the Jewish man is tormented into madness. I can see the connection.

@InfiniteMushroom: An Armed insurrection can bring back the traditionalism

@InfiniteMushroom: But for how long? Science is the only long term solution. Traditionalism would be fine in a society where females are no longer needed. At this point. WE DEPEND on females. for reproduction. Freeing ourselves from that means the cards are in our hands.

@InfiniteMushroom: Like I said. Any form of traditionalism will only repeat the cycle. And it will make things worse. It will help women and give them time to adapt. Evolve. Learn from their mistakes and and when they rise again it will be even more severe than now. Our focus has to be in recruiting more men. Of like mind. To see influence more men. And using the same tactics females use as well as our own to have them accept, promote, and support our technology, our philosophy. Our freedom will come with their applause. That is how we can achieve this.